Thanks for your support and links, the video will be back up soon.]
This week I must have done the reverse of walking under a ladder or breaking a mirror. First I got to upload the world’s 1st ever look at a RaonDigital Vega – Ultra Portable PC (UPPC), and today, as part of my “Australian Tablet Guy Duties” I have been graced with another World Exclusive from manufacturer Fujitsu.Fujitsu has been manufacturing Tablet PC and dedicated to the space longer than anyone else. Their range is synonymous with quality and style, and as a result of a phone call I received yesterday I am pleased to post the First ever look at the new Fujitsu P1610 (designed to supersede the Fujitsu P1510).
Maybe now engadget will finally recognize my efforts – hello engadget???
Specifications - Chalice (codename) P1610:
- Yonah ULV (Ultra Low Voltage) U1400 Pentium M - 1.2 GHz
- 512MB (mini SO-DIMM, still only one slot)
- 80GB 1.8" HDD
- 8.9" WideXGA Resistive Touchscreen
- MDC, LAN, FingerPrint, TPM, Bluetooth, WLAN, Intel 3945ABG, UMTS antenna (that's the 3G bit), G sensor, US Keyboard, Pen and Battery.
91 comments:
Awesome. Is this the Loox P70 under another name?
Steve
Still codenamed - probably! I'll find out...off to bed now.
Hey Gordon,
Glad to hear from you mate. In regards to my threads I guess I do a good job of splitting my persona (Tablet Guy and Entrepreneur), today I'm afraid my two worlds collided...LOL.
P1510 keyboard and P1610 keyboard are the same, but the handwriting improvements on the P1610 should do wonders! More vids coming soon.
I understand that the 3g/pcmcia/SD card are big news to some readers, but please cover other major improvements like the outdoor screen visibility/backlight! If it's the Loox p70, then the backlight, and resulting battery savings are the real innovations.
Either you work for Fujitsu, or, you have really high expectations of the level of service I provide...LOL.
More coming soon, it was only 10 minutes. :-)
The video was well done. I'm hoping that you can elaborate even further on the quality of the handwriting capability. The quick demo you showed was very positive, but I guess I want to see what it takes for it to screw up. I think it's a very big deal. The 3G was a very pleasant surprise.
Nice video, Hugo. And the Vega video was nice, too. Thanks for putting in the late night.
Do you know if/when the P1610 might be available to US customers? Price?
It is a beauty. Is there a docking station/ capability?
Thanks.
Steven
Have they cured the overheating the p1510 had?
Hi Stephen,
The handwriting is something I am taking seriously too. I will put it through OneNote 2007 Beta and do a lot of conversion stuff...keep you posted.
Hi Steve,
The device should be in the USA shortly - I believe - but I'll get a proper "official" on that soon.
Thank you for your kind words mate, I'm glad I can help.
Hi Grant,
It was so hard for me to post this knowing that you had only just purchased yours. I'm glad you've resided yourself to the fact that this is technology today, i.e. you're supersededeven before FedEX guy arrives at your door. :-(
SD card reader I didn't know but I was aware of the other stuff. I found out recently that it also sport a new indoor/outdoor screen.
I think I'll be buying one with you mate - it looks like the ultimate portable email device.
Hi Anonymous,
I probably should report that the "infamous" heating issues appear to remain. While I haven't spent an extraordinary amount of time with the device I can tell you that there is warmth - probaly good if you live in Russia; for everyone else it might present an issue.
Hey David,
Nice to hear from you mate - thanks for the device! Its definitely got everyone's attention.
Hugo, keep up the great work big fella!! I hope you get more oppourtunities like this. Might want to get more of your video highlight facts into the blog post.
Certainly looks like a nice unit. I suspect I would struggle with a keyboard that small. Would be great to see a UMPC with that res screen and sans keyboard.
Lots of questions on the screen, some reviews I have read (from photography sources) suggest the 1510 had a colour spectrum response in the lower range of lcd panel available today. Not so much of a problem on the move, but not so great for colour matching/calibration if needed.
Just to clarify, is the WXGA screen the 16:9 1280×720 or 16:10 1280x800version ?
Fujitsu given any spec on battery use profile?
I know I am full of questions today. Hugo, how rugged do think this baby is? could it cope in the company of very solid camera gear?
Hey Hugo, nice video as always. That remote zoom is really useful.
So, the big question is ... how much? The 1510 is about A$2700, so how much will the 1610 be? Is it likely to be a direct replacement at about the same price or will it be an 'upgrade' at a higher price?
Andy
Hi Andy,
The best news so far is that the price will remain the same. The only difference will be the embedded 3G, i.e. it will be an optional extra.
Mr. Photographer,
Thank you for the kudos. In regards to all your questions I will need to address them in the next 48 hrs. All answers will unfold (like a paper origami crane) shortly. LOL.
Hi All (phtographer too),
Here is a response I received from Fujitu regarding some of your comments:
The screen is a touch screen hence with the touch panel, in all honesty, it is not the ideal screen for colour calibration or matching.
The screen resolution is 1280 x 768 instead of the two screen resolutions mentioned in the email (Phtographer asked about 16:9).
In terms of battery use profile, is it referring to power management? If so, we are utilising the Windows XP power management. Battery life has not been indicated due to the current machine is a pre-release engineering sample.
How rugged? I’m not sure how to respond to this question but the machine is not a ToughBook. It still needs reasonable love and care. In a carrier case scenario, it is recommended to have some protection compartment for the machine to avoid being squashed, even though it does have quite significant padding material around the screen, and strong material used for system casing and LCD back cover.
Hope this help -
Huo Ortega
Hugo,
Damn quick response as usual. Good thing I am stuck in airport departure lounge (nothing new there) or I might not get any work done if you keep responding this quickly.
I think you covered the "rugged" question. Although I am not flying around in helicopters and going to battle with my gear, it gets the short end of the stick being in the belly of planes, side of the MCG, race tracks in the middle of no where. My baby dell has survived the longest so far (and my imate pda2k evdo has been a trooper).
Looks like fujitsu have got a great little product. I am going to have to get my hands on one.
And again, keep up the great work!
Photgrapher you really are a mover and a shaker! Cheers!
Good work Hugo - great video blog! How easy is the keyboard to type with? I'm thinking of getting the new Toshiba Satellite R20 Tablet PC. Have you seen that yet? Would be keen to know your thoughts. Best regards Jon Dee, Planet Ark
Thanks for the video. I am EXTREMELY excited about the 1610 release. I refrained from purchasing the 1510 because of what I felt was a subpar screen. Everything else about it was just perfect for my needs though. But to find out Fujitsu has improved the screen AND added more features, my checkbook is awaits.
Please find out more on the US release if you can.
hi Hugo! thanks for that! I am already enquiring about a preorder on the P1610!
Do you know if the RAM and HDD is upgradable?
Nah I am a working stiff like everyone else. I just get to do some great stuff and some bloody ordinary things as well (sitting in the rain/freezing cold waiting for a rally car to belt over a hill for hours on end).
Always looking for ways to make life easier (being a gadget freak helps).
Hi Jon Dee Planet Ark (love your work),
I think between the Toshiba and the P1610 we need to understand that they are two very different devices, and thereofre barely comparable. The P1610 hits so many sweet spots due size/function ratio and it can be considered as a great laptop replacement; the R20, while still having so many limitations (I know) can actually be considered a desktop replacement.
Keyboard on the P1610 is very functional, in fact I'm posting these commments from it! Wouldn't want to trash my desktop just yet though (hold on, I don't have a desktop...LOL)
Hi Anonymouses's's,
US release not something I can comment on with any accuracy. Because I am in contct with Fujitsu PC Asia Pacific Group I cannot reliably state the US position in regards to delivery. (trying to find out though as most of my readers are from there - "HI MOM!" Isn't that what you all say).
RAM and HDD is upgradeable but it can be very painful on the wallet. Because of a mini SO-DiMM that the P-series runs it can be rather costly. For e.g. in Australia the upgrade is worth over $1,000; granted that's Monopoly money when copared to Pounds and USD, but it will be costly no matter what language. The HDD is in the same boat as it runs the 1.8" drive - enough said.
Hey Photgrapher!
Rally Car photography and UMPC in one sentence, now that's cool. Tell me when and where and I'll be there.
Thanks for the really quick reply Hugo! One suspects you have a bio-integrated circuit on your body!
So any news on release date in Australia (Hi Mum)? Will they come with upgrade options? The P1510 did not have the upgrade option in Aust but was something that was possible for Fujitsu online sales.
Really need 1GB of RAM these days....
By the way agreed on the nice suit!
Cheers!
The Pill (tablet, pill...get it?? haha)
Fujitsu online sales in US
Pill...
Hey Phill,
like this: Fujitsu PC Sales Online
Hey Phill!
I don't know about a chip inmy head but I do know that I practice what I preach...no matter what device I pickup I am online and live.
Out of all the productivity talks I talk (does that make sense), the one I pay attention to the most is "reply now" because later there will be double!
"Bio-integrated Circuit" would have been a heaps funkia' answa'
All that talk of productivity, you sound like my double! Whew! I am not alone in the world!
Oh I spoke to 2 people at Fujitsu Australia on the release date. One response was that they are still evaluating the machine and targetting release in Nov. Another response I got was in 3 weeks time....
Didn't get a definite answer of upgrading the RAM/HDD though... :(
By the way, I'm working on that biointegrated circuit so I can "think" my email responses... eat my dust voice recognition.... :)
Pill
If you're thinking your responses you're probably doing it in your sleep as its 1am in Australia.
BTW Fujitsu Australia is not Fujitsu PC Australia - two companies with two very different hierarchies – I think you tried the wrong one.
I have one of only 2 prototypes in the Southern Hemisphere.
To Photographer:
Just so that you know, every single laptop LCD in existance is only 18bit color panels (yes, Macs too). This means that no laptop LCD can give you true 24bit 16.7 million colors like some desktop LCDs can. The best that can be managed is faked "16.2" million colors through dithering, but really, we are talking only 262,144 colors outputted through the LCD in reality.
Now keep in mind some Laptop also only have 16bit color output through it's video card, so some can't even do the 262,144 colors and only manage 65,536 colors. I doubt that the P 1610 will have this problem since it's using the Intel GMA950 built in video chip which is fully capable of processing 24bit color (which will be then dithered to 18bit screen).
What's sleep??
P
This thing can't come soon enough, anyone heard any release date info on this bad boy?
Hey Phill - sleep is for the passion-less!!! Thanks for the input on the "Pixel/LCD/Bits" stuff...I love when a thred grows without me...
Hi Anonymous,
Release date is estimated for end of November
November? Now thats just cruel, this thing looks awesome. I really like the black color too.
What kind of battery life are you hitting with that LED backlight?
Could you take some close up hi-res pictures?
Hi Vi3trong,
November...that's only a few weeks away! I think this device is really worth waiting for...I really had some fun!
But where has the video gone?
Hi Anonymous,
At the moment it has been pulled down, i.e. too much attention, too soon, for a yet to be released device. It will go up again soon.
HELP!
HELLO,
I CAN'T READ THE VIDEO OF THE LAST P1610, AND I DON'T KNOW WHY?
MAYBE THERE IS A BUG?
THANKS
Hello Anonymous,
As the big red writing states at the top...I was asked to take it down for the moment due to the high level of response. It will be back!
Therefire, no bugs, just overwhelmed fujitsu management...lol
Hey Hugo, do you know if this gives any hope to those of us who really like the Fujitsu P7xxx form factor that there might be a core 2 duo P7xxx update coming?
Hi Anonymous,
I think the future looks bright and Fujitsu is one of the manufacturers talking the Tablet space very seriously. Core Duo, and more, is very inevitable. Stay tuned here as I have a few more exclusives to brag about soon!
I heard today Nov 1 for the US release date. That coming from someone who has has 2000+ units on order, so he seemed to have valid info.
Sounds like your talking to my friend "Mr.Education" from New York! Hes spot on!
I didn't get a chance to see the video, but I heard some people talk about the 1500 series getting pretty hot. Did they address that in this model? I'm hoping the Core solo might help?
Hi Anonymous,
I can honestly say that I did not have a "hot" experience with the P1610. I had a warm one but not a hot one. I'm going to get it back in my hands soon and will post another video.
Cheers!
Hugo, that was a fantastic video!! Thanks!! I have a question for you tho...can I use Alias Sketchbook Pro or some other paint programs on this bad boy? I'm a digital painter that already has a Cintiq, but looking for an ultramobile sized tablet that I can doodle away on as well as run apps on from time to time...
Any ideas?
Hi Anonymous,
I can't say that I have had much experience with the programs you have mentioned so my feedback will not be as specific as you might expect. Knowing however that UMPC ship with the Windows XP Platform means that you should be able to perform the regular tasks as you would on any other PC, i.e. if it installs and works on other XP boxes then UMPC should do the same.
I know this might not help but hopefiully it does. The only other dilemma is the touchscreen. If your application wait for a cursor movement (i.e. lift off of the page) then the touchscreen can sometimes inhibit that behaviour as the cursor stay where you leave it until you place somewhere else.
Let me know if this helps or hinders? :-)
Hey Hugo...actually no that didnt answer my question at all! haha. Let me try this a different way...does the P1610 have a pressure sensitive tablet and pen?
Programs like SketchBook Pro use pressure sensitivity to discern how thick or light it makes brush strokes and such.
Hello Hugo,
Well done on the Fujitsu P1610 video review. Glad Fujitsu let you put it up again.
Quick question...I noticed that the P1610 you reviewed is black/dark grey with black keys but the US version on their web store is black/silver with white keys.
Does this mean that the black version is for the Asian markets and the Silver version for North America and Europe markets?
I personally prefer the black keys as the silver version looks like a P1510 fused to the P1610 screen :)
Keep up the fantastic reviews!
Kind regards,
Howard (Malaysia)
Hi Howard (Malaysia),
Thanks for your support and enthusiasm. Obviously the specs of these devices vary from region to region so it becomes hard to know who to actually believe. Regrettably I cannot provude further insight as I'm not part of the marketing team or the sales team - I'm just a little Aussie blogger.
Keep me posted on what else you find and I'll be sure to do the same...:-)
Hi Hugo,
I'll check with my Fujitsu rep for more detailed specs and the difference in key colors once they launch this model in Malaysia/Singapore.
Btw, was the 3G chip that came with your P1610 video review unit HSDPA?
Thanks again,
Howard
Will $500 extra for the 1GB version of the p1610 make a noticeable difference in performance on this 1.2GHz core solo with 4200RPM drives and 128MB of shared RAM for video, if one is using the device as an ebook reader or for watching DVDs (using Deamon Tools? Also, might this thing not even work with Vista with only 512MB?
Hi Anonymous,
The P1610 will definitely perform better under 1GB of RAM. The problem is value for money, i.e. the value is there, but do you have the money? If I buy a P1610, and I am seriously entertaining it, I will buy the 1GB or RAM.
The main reason is that the device is so versatile that I will inevitably use it for more than its intended use. Although I might buy it to email on, I will soon blog from it, surf on it and might begin to write and excel on it too.
Hope this helps...PS. Australia goes live tonight with pricing.
Does anyone know if the 3G option is available in the model released in the US? I contacted a company called Euclid Computers and they say the 3G is not available.
Hi Mate,
Regrettably the 3G flavor is not due out till Quarter 1 next year. From what I know it will then be a region-by-region decision whether it "actually" ships or not.
Anyone have anything to add???
Hi has someone found out about the P1610 keyboard color...they have it in white/silver in the U.S. and I've seen pictures with a black keyboard that looks much better...anyone knows if I can get one with black keyboard...can I order one from Australia?
Hi Anonymous,
You can order one from Australia if you are keen. Just email sales at tegatech . com . au
By the way, sorry about the late reply, I jsut sold my last laptop and it took me a few days to get email back onto the new one (lazy).
Niiice review!
Can you tell me what is it about the 2 different colors black / silver
i couldn't find anything about ordering the black or the silver model...
another point is the battery life...
fujitsu-siemens is talking about 4.5h here
and fujitsu says 3.25h with the same battery... so what do you think?
finally do you know what's the difference between the P1610 and the P1610D?
excuse my poor english... greetings from austria ;)
lg CF
Hi CF,
Welcome! and thanks for stopping by. I am afraid I do not know the actual battery differences but I do know that 3.25 is more realistic, no matter what anyone says.
I have not played with the C1 but I do think it looks sweet; I like how thin it looks, and light. I hope someone tells us if it is true though.
Nice to hear from you!
Does anyone know P1510 has an updated touch panel driver which allows "lean and write" ?
Hugo, any info on a p1610 upgrade, now that computers are shipping with Vista installed, and the p1610 has competition from the new Flybook V5i (see Rob Bushway's gottabemobile inkshow)? I've been eyeing the p1610 for weeks but for the price I wish it was more powerful (core duo, more memory, Vista ready instead of Vista capable).
What I like about the Flybook V5i:
Vista preinstalled. Core duo processor (soon to have core 2 duo). 2gb max memory. User swappable hard drive. Great connectivity (more ports, including a video out that hooks into the tv). Cell phone application (lets the Flybook dial or receive calls from and to your cell phone number when the sim card is in).
What I like about the P1610:
Palm rejection. Great battery life with the extended battery. Higher screen res.
It's hard to decide which to get. I'd love an in depth review of the Flybook V5i if you can get your hands on one. Think it'll take another 10 months to upgrade the P1610?
Yo yall. I searched for flybook v5i reviews and found this blog on the first page! It quoted the comment below about the v5i and the fujitsu 1610. Hugo answers almost everyones comment but not this dudes. Wassup with that?
Hello Anonymous,
I received an ACER Ferrari (free ) recently and my emails went from one setup to a new one, and my anti-spam (Windows Defender) may have got a little hungry. As you've noted everyone's comments get followed up answered, and your is no different.
Lets look at the Flybook. It hasn't been very popular worldwide and I really can't see why. All the features you have described are very compelling however I believe they are suffering from "newcomers" syndrome. Fujitsu on the other hand has literally been making tablets for longer than anyone else and the results are always solid.
THe P1610 is a rare beast in that it sport the most manufacturing experience while actually being usuable and feature packed enough. HOWEVER, as a strategy Fujitsu never leads the market into a new processor or even a new RAM configuration, or connectivity, or anything else for that matter. Fujitsu terms itself as a conservative organisation that would rather hold something back than roll out something half-hearted.
In this case the only reason for not going Core Duo, or Core 2 Duo would be the heat, I imagine. If you have ever worked with a core duo or the later device then you will know what I mean. I know there are some great reviews out there but I haven't really heard of anyone buying this device is large numbers...
I think if you bought it you would be pleased, however always consider manufacturers with a longer standing i the market.
Does this help? Sorry again for missing your comment, I look forward to hearing more from you. Have you got a name??? :-)
The Fujitsu P1610 is a very cool and useful convertible laptop. Unfortunately, I had cracked the screen and had to deal with Fujitsu's support for the repairs.
After 1 1/2 hours on hold and transfer, one support rep (Brian) did not or could not figure out how to fill out the RMA. Finally being escalated to another (David), they were able finally processed their paper work.
From my experience with Fujitsu support, your going to waste some time and may run into an non-helpful support person.
Good Luck...
RM
Hi RM,
Thank you for posting this valuable feedback. I'm a strong believer that support and warranty is instrumental when buying these devices. Not only must you choose a good device but you must consider the after-sales support too.
What you have stated is well worth listening to! Cheers. Although it is a shame from Fuji as I thought they were a company getting it right. Perhaps they let YOU down but are doing well in general?!?! I would like to hear from anyone else.
Good luck with the repair mate and let me know the end result.
Just a quick question...
Does anyone know if the P1610 has the ability when in tablet mode to allow you to move the cursor over say the 'Tray Icons' and have balloon info pop up?
The way I read this passive screen is in order to move the cursor you have to click on the screen.
If you do that you loose any hope of getting balloon messages.
The ASUS R2H gets around this by having a joypad and tip where you can move the cursor around the screen without using any passive action. This works well for balloon messages.
Thanks.
Mike
Hi Mike,
regrettably the P1610 does not have this "jpystick" function. The joystick was part of the Origami (now UMPC) revolution and not part of the P1510 or P1610 architecture. I think time will see this integrate but for now this, and therefore hover (which you term ballooning) is not available.
Many thanks Hugo.
Such a shame as personally the 'hover' is a valuable tool... not just for the Quick Launch icons but other tools.
i.e. Hover over a web link and the address appears in the bottom of your browser.
With no hover you can not do this.
HI Mike,
I tend to agree...th hover is valuable. In one of my earliest videos I covered this off in detail:
UMPC: An Australian Story
Thanks for the comment!
I purchased one of these after reading these reviews and I have to say that I am totally delighted. I have always had a Sony Vaio TX series small light notebook but this blows it away in usability.
I have no discovered how useful One Note is.
I could only get one with half a gig of ram which isn't enough really but I have ordered a 1 gig chip so that should help.
I really wanted the one with a gig and the sim card slot but couldnt locate one anywhere.
Strangely mine came with a long life battery on it even though I didn't order that and it last for hours and hours.
Thanks for the review.
Hi Stuart Forest,
Thank you so much for your comment. It is a delight to receive such feedbck and always keeps me motivated.
The machine is awesome and OneNote the perfect compliment to the device. The P1610 with Sim Card slot is still not available (as of today) but I have been told it is only but weeks away now - due mostly to software reworks.
I look forward to hearing your many tails of Tablet fun for years to come!
Great comment!
I couldn't resist and bought the P1610. Quite expensive in the UK.
I've had it for a while now and wrote a Review of the P1610 which I'd like to share.
Hi Charles,
Great review...although I think you went a little heavy on the LOVE. LOL (only teasing). You can tell you love the machine but I think you summed it up best when you said:
"The machine isn’t perfect, but it’s a great combination of portability and power."
Have fun and stay in touh. Tell me the latest and greatest coming out of your world.
(BTW, you should get plenty of link love from Google by placing your own back link on my blog... :-)
Hi. Will put a link back to you and jkOTR. :)
Maybe I'll add something to make it clear that I think it's a great machine!
I kind of like to know some of the things that irritate you which you can't really figure out from the specs!
Hi Charles...links are good. :-)
Things that bug me are the keys on the keyboard (too small and not enough definition in between keys). Apart from that it is an awesome machine, worth any one's money.
I would like to hear more from you - don't be afraid to get opinionated as this makes OEMs grow!!!
Thanks for the reminder on key definitions! There were a couple more 'irritants' you reminded me of :)
Will update soon.
(FYI, Google won't rate my site any higher because of the link on your blog has the 'nofollow' tag)
Hi Charles,
You're a star. Is the tag somethign you wrote in, or something Google automatically attaches to links placed in comments? (My comment was only tongue-in-cheek, but you have honestly taught me this time) Cheers.
Can't wait to read more about "irritants" LOL
>Is the tag somethign you wrote in
The nofollow tag is applied automatically my most blog software now to prevent spam.
Although if you genuinely like the 'review', please feel free to link it properly ;)
I purchased a P1610 as a replacement for my failing Motion Computing LE1600, like it so far but have come across a strange quirk and I am wondering whether this is common, a real problem, or some setting I am missing:
In a fresh OneNote (or Journal) page, "trace" a portion of the horizontal notebook rule with your pen. Repeat for all lines on the page.
what I am noticing is that at the top of the screen, the traced line overwrites the notebook line exactly, but as one proceeds down the page, the offset between the notebook line and the traced line increases--by the middle of the page, it's 50% off! It then returns as you get to the bottom of the page.
I have calibrated the screen a number of times to see if it improves--nope.
what gives?
Paul
Hi Paul,
That sounds a little weird. I have not experienced it before but nor have I tried to replicate what you are describing. If I were you I woould try it in Journal and see the results, and then try Fujitsu as their support staff are pretty good.
If you get a moment pop back onto this thread as what you discover may be very valuable to the community. Thank you and sorry I couldn't shed any more light.
thanks for response Hugo.
I tried it on Journal, same response. tried it in both portrait and landscape mode, in the latter case the offset is now horizontal. All points to a screen calibration problem. I hunted around the web for a bit and found a reference to a second calibration utility, one that uses seven points (including three in the middle of the screen) versus the four (extreme corners of the screen) in the utility I was using. Went back to P1610, hunted and found it, ran it, restarted and "bob's yer uncle", all is fine.
This is (compared to you, "only") my sixth tablet; early HP and Electrovaya slates, toshiba M400, back to Motion LE1600 slate, a brief dalliance with the Motion LS800 and now this.
Getting used to touch after active is most noticeable transition.
cheers,
paul
Hey Star (Paul),
Great work. Now all that is left to do is for you to post some links to the clever little Utility you found and the rest my friend is locked in for Google to remember for all God's time.
Touch is definitley associated with some learning, especially after being Electro Magnetic enabled. The P1610 is the closest to the tablet Pen so you've actually picked well. Keep up the great work...and the great Tablet collection. Although only a small collection I think you're right on track. LOL.
happy to do so, once my unit comes back from our sysadmin folk, who have to install particular configurations to run on our network.
--p
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